Consumer reviews and reports on scam companies, bad products and services
Bill Bartmann - Phoenix Group Broken Business Model Tulsa, Oklahoma
30th of Dec, 2011 by User214437
I purchased the Bill Bartmann In Home Debt Buying Workshop for 3K and completed the home study course. Afterward, I joined the Phoenix Group, which included a business plan, assistance in joining the American Collectors Association, debt broker registration, and securing a portfolio. I purchased a 276K portfolio for 21K and place the portfolio with CFS II (Bill Bartmann's collection agency). The first month of the collection period is a quiet period and collections begin on the second month. The Phoenix Group charges $1875 per month for their services, which is limited after the portfolio is placed into collections. The results of three months of actual collections has failed to covered the Phoenix Group's $1875 per month fee. After paying the Phoenix Group for 5 months and experiencing abysmal collection results from CFS II, I asked the Phoenix Group to restructure their fee to be based on a percentage of the collection results. The Phoenix Group refused to entertain my offer and we have agreed to part company. I will place my portfolio with another collection agency, which will alleviate the Phoenix Group's monthly fee and will hopefully recoup some of my investment. The Phoenix Group business model is broken. They get paid regardless of how well the portfolio performs. Their monthly fees are exorbitant based on the amount of work they do after the portfolio is placed with a collection agency. Their recommended solution to their exorbitant fees is to purchase additional portfolios and spread the costs over several portfolio. While this might work in theory, CFS II collection results do not warrant spending additional money and going further into debt. If the Phoenix Group does not change its fee structure, then it is a losing proposition for the investor. I would recommend staying away until Bill Bartmann and the Phoenix Group change their rate structure to coincide with collection results.
3569 days ago by Ingridolsen
Hi There, maybe we can help you out. Write me at [email protected]
Kindest regards,
3536 days ago by Jay Lenter
Yep. CfsII is ran by favored family members with absolutely no collections experience. While bartmann is away crusading all 50 states to enhance his political image in hopes of gaining business from respectable banks, his illegitimate management staff is driving cfsII into the ground. I also placed alit of my portfolio with cfsII. I also toured his agency late summer of 2012. His glorified agency is nothing more than a musty rented floor at the cityplex towers in Tulsa OK. I did however see a board with large figures on it as I walked in the door. I wonder if it was my portfolio returns that I never received! I've worked with major players in the debt buying industry such as galaxy, asset Acceptance, northstar acquisitions etc... they all agree that these generic business plans are very juvenile and not worth 3k for a common sense, motivational seminar in a box with a business plan.
2965 days ago by Mcleod51
A very complex sophisticated con game, with many legitimate-seeming components which draw the mark (the "student-investor") deeper and deeper into an increasingly negative situation. They skinned me and a business partner of over $50K in seminar fees and monthly consulting fees over a 2 year period (in addition to the actual performance-based collection fees of around $35K and another $10K or so we spent on travel, meals and lodging and start-up expenses; and $90K from a bank that we will lose through foreclosure on collateral we put up). The balance of power was completely in Bartmann's favor, and no one in his right mind would enter into a relationship like the one we had unless the con game was of the highest and subtlest caliber. Bartmann is an extremely accomplished socio-path con artist. We received monthly telephone updates from our "coach" and conference calls with Bartmann - all reassuring us that landing the forward-flow contracts for buying bad debts from big banks and nine-figures of capital for Bartmann to ramp up product acquisition were just a matter of time. Nothing materialized. Finally the pace of collections deteriorated. We kept hoping that this too would turn the corner as Bartmann implemented all the wonderful innovations he touted on the conference calls. Then suddenly Bartmann offered to buy back (with a 1-year zero% note) our remaining portfolio assets at our cost (minus NLEX fees) and we agreed. 4 months later we still haven't received the note. He seems like such an incredibly nice guy, with the absolute best collection philosophy and model. But sadly he is nothing but charm and promises.

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